Community – Part 3/3

CFC Christian Fellowship Church

Community - Part 3/3

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00:00:03:19 – 00:00:27:24
Gibbo
Welcome back. This is part three of our CFC podcast on the idea of community and life in church together. Looking through all of the great stuff that we’ve covered so far, about inter-generational about being for each other and being for the other. And we’re sort of going to conclude this final part. Jill Boyd is with us again of course.

00:00:27:24 – 00:00:50:01
Gibbo
And we’re going to think about the the early church. We’re going to, as I guess we want to be, as CFC community formed and shift also by the good that we see there. But also we want to be realistic and we want to be truthful about the entirety of the early church community and not just like on the really, really good things.

00:00:50:18 – 00:01:11:00
Gibbo
And then we want to just track through that conversation and and see where we go in terms of what happens perhaps in community when there is difficulty. And because while we want to be a Christ centered community, we understand that as we try to do that, we’re going to we’re going to make mistakes. We’re going to get things wrong.

00:01:11:10 – 00:01:37:02
Gibbo
And the church is not a perfect place. But together, we we want to we want to strive actually as Christ has called us to be perfect as I am perfect. So we want to journey to that. Yeah. And we’ll do that together and in community. So like Jill, early church if I was to say to you like early church, what I suppose in our church tradition, like what are the sermons we’ve heard? What are the stories we’ve heard, like what’s our go to

00:01:37:02 – 00:01:38:04
Gibbo
And we think of the early church?

00:01:38:22 – 00:01:50:03
Jill
They’re just like together all the time. They’re eating, they’re praying, they’re worshipping. They’re just, I don’t know, like singing Kumbayah around the campfire and having s’mores, right?

00:01:50:04 – 00:01:50:23
Gibbo
Yeah. I mean.

00:01:50:24 – 00:01:55:05
Jill
You just get this sense that they are very.. like they’re family.

00:01:55:05 – 00:01:55:14
Gibbo
Yeah.

00:01:55:23 – 00:01:57:05
Jill
Friends that are family.

00:01:57:06 – 00:01:57:15
Gibbo
Yeah.

00:01:57:21 – 00:02:04:15
Jill
With Jesus at the center and we get we paint this picture. This is brilliant. This is what we’re working towards.

00:02:04:15 – 00:02:04:23
Gibbo
Yeah.

00:02:05:07 – 00:02:10:17
Jill
But in fact, maybe as we journey through acts, we realize that actually it’s not all that.

00:02:10:23 – 00:02:27:13
Gibbo
Yeah. Yeah, I think. I think that’s fair. I think my m my addition to that would be like, there are elements that, that, that we look to which are really, really good. Like, you know, they are together, you know, they are one accord and devoted to.

00:02:27:13 – 00:02:30:00
Jill
The word and the scripture

00:02:30:00 – 00:02:33:07
Jill
Which is why we do a Sunday service, the way we do a Sunday service is probably some of these Principles.

00:02:33:07 – 00:02:53:22
Gibbo
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Be into the ritual and the habit of thought which, which are important. Remember Not all habits are bad habits. Not all ritual is, is bad. And actually we we are habitual ritual people like let’s be honest. That that’s, that’s who we are as humans. And there’s structure to our design and their structure to who we are.

00:02:54:05 – 00:03:11:22
Gibbo
And so it stands to reason that there will be structure and there will be rhythm and order to our services as we meet as church, both in, you know, in a building on a Sunday or through the week. And however we do that and the early church, certainly were doing that. But have we made it perhaps an idol?

00:03:12:00 – 00:03:21:15
Gibbo
You know, it’s like almost our now, you know, why can we not be more like the early church, you know? And is there a danger there perhaps that with these we move into idolatry around the early church?

00:03:22:09 – 00:03:37:08
Jill
I think potentially because I think if we have that as the standard, like we just need to walk into any church building and know that it’s not all rosy. Yeah. Because people are involved, right? Yeah. And where there’s people, it’s messy.

00:03:37:09 – 00:03:38:00
Gibbo
Yeah.

00:03:38:01 – 00:03:52:04
Jill
And yeah. So it is it’s expectation. So if we read Scripture and we build this expectation, this is what church should be like. This is what the family of God should be like. And there is a reality. It should be.

00:03:52:11 – 00:03:53:21
Gibbo
Yeah, yeah. We want to own that.

00:03:53:21 – 00:04:17:09
Jill
Yeah, we want to own that because there should be something where there is a deep love for one another. We’re very devoted to each other’s growth. We’re devoted to and we’ve talked about our lives down. We’re expecting that, right? If we read Scripture, it’s, it’s almost like you ever been like on holiday and the brochure even even my Heidi let’s take McDonald’s for a massive example.

00:04:17:10 – 00:04:20:12
Gibbo
And other fast food outlets are available

00:04:20:12 – 00:04:44:07
Jill
The burger that is presented right looks incredible. Right? It looks incredible like the lettuce and the bun falls down and the water splashes off this freshly washed salad and them and then she has been known to open her burgers like this looks nothing like the picture like what is this? And all the elements are there, but it’s not quite right and it’s not quite what I bought into.

00:04:44:15 – 00:04:48:16
Jill
I think we have to own that when we read scripture, it paints

00:04:48:19 – 00:04:52:05
Gibbo
And the McPlant, of course, as well for our for our vegan listeners.

00:04:52:09 – 00:04:54:20
Jill
Also a community.

00:04:55:08 – 00:04:55:13
Gibbo
Yes.

00:04:55:19 – 00:05:05:17
Jill
They are amazing evangelists, can we just to point out, because how do you know that someone’s a vegan because they tell you, you know, we could learn a lot about evangelism from their life style and choices.

00:05:05:17 – 00:05:10:14
Gibbo
So you have this like this idea, this image.

00:05:11:16 – 00:05:18:24
Jill
Of what it should be should be and then we we experience something that’s not that. And it all comes tumbling down.

00:05:19:01 – 00:05:37:16
Gibbo
Yeah. And of course, the reality is like, obviously you just go a couple of chapters after this wonderful description of the early church and how they were sharing with one another. And can I also say this to, to, to our listeners, like on our CFC church family and other church families, you know, there are times where we do this really well.

00:05:37:22 – 00:06:00:04
Gibbo
Like, you know, I got an email actually last week from, from a mother of, of somebody who’s just really appreciated the love and care that was shown for her daughter and her husband when they went through a really difficult time. How every night opened the door, meals were made, you know, so there was the sharing of each other in that sense.

00:06:00:04 – 00:06:18:03
Gibbo
And it really made an impact, obviously, so much to this lady that she felt she needed to, you know, like send an email in and and it was a wonderful email to receive, you know.. And sometimes not all emails that we receive are. As Pastors of churches are wonderful. But this is a wonderful email and I was grateful.

00:06:18:03 – 00:06:19:06
Jill
But did you star it.

00:06:19:07 – 00:06:53:14
Gibbo
Absolutely i moved it into the folder of favorites? No, I didn’t. And but it was great. But I think we want to also like honor and recognize. And I sit here someone on this lovely stool again for those here listening, our podcast on this lovely stool in this great and this great church and who has benefited of the love of my church community for the last, you know, 15 years and i know you have too Jill and so the reality is we do have this expectation.

00:06:54:05 – 00:07:10:10
Gibbo
It’s not always met at, but at times it is. And, and when it is, we want to also honor and recognize that. And we don’t always just like church doesn’t or church isn’t and why isn’t it like this and and all of those things. And I think that part of it is because we have this expectation of what the early church was doing.

00:07:10:22 – 00:07:39:11
Gibbo
But we discover actually a few verses later that not everybody was sharing everything. And obviously the story of Ananias and Sapphira and, you know, it’s pretty it’s pretty pretty brutal story. That’s pretty harsh story like really, really hard hitting. And but we do discover that actually, you know, it’s not this perfect idealistic idol that we can maybe make it. But do you think that leads and maybe takes us into our next sort of chat around expectation?

00:07:39:12 – 00:07:39:18
Jill
Hmm.

00:07:41:02 – 00:07:48:00
Gibbo
Do you think that some of the issues in church community is is down to this aspect of what are we expecting? You know?

00:07:48:04 – 00:08:04:05
Jill
Yeah. Does that even go back though to our very first discussion that because here’s the thing, our expectations, the expectations that I have are all about me.

00:08:04:05 – 00:08:04:22
Gibbo
Oh, yeah. Good.

00:08:04:23 – 00:08:37:04
Jill
You know what I mean when I’m saying that so like, I’m expecting this to happen OK? And the reason I’m expecting it to happen is because it serves me. Like, let’s be honest and I’m talking to myself. Do we walk into rooms and is our expectation that we’re bringing something, but it’s never about what we’re bringing. The expectations always about what we’re receiving and maybe that’s maybe that’s the upside down kingdom that Jesus is wanting to flip inside all of us.

00:08:37:05 – 00:08:39:00
Jill
Just went down into another segway of like.

00:08:39:00 – 00:09:11:20
Gibbo
Are yeah, but it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s good because there is a conversation and sort of, I think the Spirit is speaking to the church in and around this on a local and global sense around this idea of contribution and not consumption. How the church for for many it’s almost imitated culture that we go to consume. And like we’ve got to be really honest like Jill don’t we like we as people who are often on stage or maybe on a platform even that language just makes me uncomfortable a little bit at times.

00:09:11:20 – 00:09:30:18
Gibbo
You know. And then there are there are consumers you know, and then at times you know, I sit and consume as well like you know, even had comments on Sunday about and people wondering, ah, where were the worship leaders and professionals, you know, professional singers because they were so good

00:09:30:22 – 00:09:40:10
Gibbo
But it’s so easy isn’t it, to to because of of talent and gifting and all of these amazing things that we have and resource that we can consume and.

00:09:41:02 – 00:10:09:24
Jill
That’s in our culture. I honestly think what made this even more tricky in this last season was church online. Like I I really value church online. But actually whenever I sit in my living room with my TV on, I’m instantly a consumer. And it was much harder to participate because I’m turning up to get every time I’m turning up to get I’m turning up to get everywhere I go I’m turning up to get.

00:10:10:09 – 00:10:13:00
Jill
But the message of the kingdom is like, you’re turning up to give.

00:10:13:05 – 00:10:14:09
Gibbo
Yeah, yeah.

00:10:14:12 – 00:10:23:07
Jill
So like that was really hard to do online. Because you weren’t allowed to go anywhere. Like, participation was very limited.

00:10:23:10 – 00:10:23:19
Gibbo
Yeah.

00:10:24:00 – 00:10:30:24
Jill
So like, I think that was the hardest part about church not together was because there was no space to give.

00:10:31:21 – 00:10:55:01
Gibbo
Yeah, I think you’re right. And I think that, you know, as we move obviously online church is is important we’re not gonna obviously to do a podcast on it, but it’s still has a place for connection. And it is it is keeping a community together. Who can’t for whatever reason, be there and be present in person.

00:10:55:08 – 00:10:59:03
Gibbo
So it has value and the purpose of that’s really important.

00:10:59:09 – 00:11:09:19
Jill
I think that’s really good though to highlight that the goal of it is to connect, not to consume. You can still connect online. But it’s much easier to consume online.

00:11:10:01 – 00:11:10:10
Gibbo
Yeah.

00:11:10:11 – 00:11:11:03
Jill
I think.

00:11:11:11 – 00:11:11:19
Gibbo
Yeah.

00:11:12:09 – 00:11:14:22
Jill
Maybe, maybe that’s unfair.

00:11:14:23 – 00:11:20:00
Gibbo
I think connection and not consumption is the posture and heart of of us all.

00:11:20:00 – 00:11:21:03
Jill
In person and online.

00:11:21:07 – 00:11:55:14
Gibbo
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I think that’s important. And so yeah, to go back to this idea of expectation, often the when community or even church doesn’t meet our expectation which as you, you know have drawn out and I agree with I think, you know this idea of what’s my it’s my expectation. It’s self isn’t it and and yeah and I suppose the reality is as we discover not just in Acts about the early church but through the New Testament, we discover actually that there’s disagreement that.

00:11:55:15 – 00:11:56:08
Jill
Imagine.

00:11:56:13 – 00:11:58:21
Gibbo
I know imagine, there’s disagreement about theology.

00:11:59:00 – 00:11:59:11
Jill
Yeah.

00:11:59:11 – 00:12:11:10
Gibbo
You know, there’s disagreement about like distribution of support to the poor and to widows and how that’s done and how that’s managed in the administration. So there’s, there’s difference in strategy as well.

00:12:11:19 – 00:12:17:14
Jill
And people who want certain people to be involved and there’s those conversations.

00:12:17:19 – 00:12:31:14
Gibbo
So in many regards, we also see a lot of what we see in the modern church in the early church too. And I think we’ve got to be honest. And I also think, I don’t know, I kind of get encouragement about that sort of thing. Like we’re not the only ones.

00:12:31:14 – 00:12:39:13
Jill
They had arguments. So do we! No, it’s true though it is because they still the gospel still moves forward.

00:12:40:01 – 00:12:41:13
Gibbo
Hey, isn’t that true? Yeah.

00:12:41:18 – 00:12:43:22
Jill
Like in spite of us.

00:12:43:22 – 00:12:48:21
Gibbo
Yeah, it wasn’t. It wasn’t about the early church being perfect, actually.

00:12:48:21 – 00:12:49:15
Jill
For perfection to come.

00:12:49:15 – 00:13:04:13
Gibbo
For perfection to come and for Christ to for the good news of the gospel and the kingdom to, to spread. And, and also, like in their imperfection, they were still having a massive impact weren’t they like, you know…

00:13:04:13 – 00:13:06:18
Jill
That’s the Grace of God right, right there.

00:13:06:18 – 00:13:27:00
Gibbo
Yeah. And like, it led the, you know, various letters you can read from, you know, Roman Emperor, the Roman Emperors and they write about this movement that’s growing. And some of the things they’re saying are like, you know, like I mean amazing it’s like like, you know, these guys actually love and serve, not just their own people, but they serve and love are people, too.

00:13:27:06 – 00:13:31:22
Gibbo
And it’s sort of like this idea of going this is actually shaking an empire.

00:13:32:01 – 00:13:43:06
Jill
You even think of like martyrdom and then persecution, like they try to kill the Christian faith but actually what they end up doing is igniting it even more. So people are willing to die for this.

00:13:43:06 – 00:13:43:24
Gibbo
Yeah. Yeah.

00:13:43:24 – 00:13:51:01
Jill
And it becomes this exciting, passionate thing. They’re literally laying down their lives for the sake of the Gospel

00:13:51:01 – 00:14:18:18
Gibbo
They’re following Jesus. You know, quite literally, like, you know, and when Jesus says that really radical, like, horrific phrase actually you got to take up your cross and follow me. You know what the cross meant for those people hearing that at the time was a shock. Like, that was a, it was a hardcore thing for Jesus to say, you know, and anyway.

00:14:20:01 – 00:14:25:19
Gibbo
You know, and also this idea as well, didn’t they? The, the, the New Testament Church, you know, who’s the best? You know.

00:14:25:20 – 00:14:27:18
Jill
Which one are you following? Are you Apollo?

00:14:27:18 – 00:14:56:07
Gibbo
Who gets the position? And who’s right and who’s wrong, you know, obviously the disagreement of Paul and Barnabus about John Mark, you know, we can see so much of their humanity, of their community together, like following Jesus and acknowledging and recognizing that there’s problems and there’s difficulties as we do this. But that does not mean that you don’t do it together.

00:14:56:07 – 00:15:30:00
Gibbo
You know, you journey it together, you walk through it together, and you acknowledge the differences that you may have with somebody, but you do it again together because we are a Christ centered community. And so do you think there’s something in and around that about like this, this idea of not focusing on what we don’t agree on or, or what we are disappointed in? And actually focusing on, on Christ and what we do agree on.

00:15:30:03 – 00:15:44:20
Jill
Yeah, I think that’s important. I think it’s so important for the sake of relationship. It’s like sometimes you’re just not going to agree and sometimes there’s things that are just going to be right and wrong and. Well, you can argue all day. Yeah.

00:15:44:23 – 00:15:53:24
Gibbo
So the expection, let me just clarify, the expectation is that you do agree, but actually the reality is you’re not going to so actually it’s the expectation that needs to be realigned.

00:15:54:02 – 00:16:14:18
Jill
Yeah. So then is my expectation, this is a good conversation is when I come into your room and I think I’m right and the way I want to do things, this is the way it should be done. Like if you’re in church any length of time, you’ll know there will be someone else who also thinks that their way is the right way.

00:16:15:02 – 00:17:05:19
Jill
And this is the way you do things and it’s completely opposite to you. So what do we do in those moments? Because is my expectation. Do I come in to that room, then going, well, my expectation will be met when you don’t do it the way you want to do it and you do it the way I want to do it, and then I’ll be all happy because that’s my expectation met. Is that laying.. th at’s not laying my agenda down. My expectation becomes about everyone thinking like me and everybody behaving like me and everybody thinking the way I think. That’s where disappointments comes in and like unmet Expectations come in. So if I’m called to lay it down and to believe just maybe there is another way to do it and maybe that person’s opinion is really valid.

00:17:06:01 – 00:17:23:02
Jill
And is this about me being right or is it about me staying connected? I think it’s really interesting. You know, like we literally had to change our dinner set only. You know, you have a good set and bad set.

00:17:23:07 – 00:17:25:03
Gibbo
I’m going to say yes.

00:17:25:18 – 00:17:26:06
Jill
So when like.

00:17:26:16 – 00:17:26:24
Gibbo
But no.

00:17:27:20 – 00:17:29:22
Jill
No.

00:17:30:00 – 00:17:30:05
Gibbo
Yeah we do!

00:17:30:12 – 00:17:33:15
Jill
Like the every day wear there’s just like good stuff.

00:17:33:17 – 00:17:36:10
Gibbo
Yes. You bring out for visitors and that type of thing.

00:17:36:10 – 00:17:41:00
Jill
And we recently had to change ours because all the kids are doing dishes now.

00:17:41:00 – 00:17:43:04
Gibbo
Yeah. Oh, OK. So they’re like, breaking stuff?

00:17:43:14 – 00:17:44:04
Jill
All the time.

00:17:44:04 – 00:17:44:24
Gibbo
Yeah. Chipping things.

00:17:44:24 – 00:17:52:23
Jill
OK, so if I need a job done in the house, I have to lay my expectation down that it is not going to be done well.

00:17:53:11 – 00:17:54:10
Gibbo
Yeah, ok.

00:17:54:12 – 00:17:55:06
Jill
The way I want it to be done.

00:17:55:06 – 00:17:57:12
Gibbo
Yeah, ok. Yeah, yeah.

00:17:57:12 – 00:17:58:10
Jill
But we’re a family.

00:17:58:17 – 00:17:59:09
Gibbo
Yeah, it’s good.

00:17:59:09 – 00:18:02:14
Jill
I can’t kick my family out of the house.

00:18:02:16 – 00:18:03:16
Gibbo
This is really good. Yeah.

00:18:04:00 – 00:18:25:01
Jill
So that it’s done my way. Yeah, right. And nothing’s broken and everything’s perfect. And when I say clean the bathroom, what does clean the bathroom actually look like? Or are we modeling participation and inclusion. Actually, you’re part of this family. So we had, like, from the girls were tiny, like it was a family affair to empty the dishwasher.

00:18:25:01 – 00:18:42:00
Jill
Even when Heidi was tote she can do the cutlery, you can participate in this. Now, is it done right? Sometimes I find forks in the spoons and the spoons and I and I maybe have to rejig it but am I gonna rob her of participation because she can’t do it as well as me?

00:18:42:00 – 00:18:43:02
Gibbo
Yeah.

00:18:43:02 – 00:18:44:23
Jill
And I think that’s a big conversation.

00:18:45:03 – 00:18:48:24
Gibbo
How is she ever going to be able to do it well, unless she participates.

00:18:48:24 – 00:18:51:09
Jill
And who’s to say my expectation is the right one?

00:18:51:09 – 00:18:53:16
Gibbo
I mean, at the end of day, who cares of a fork is in the knife drawer.

00:18:53:20 – 00:19:19:05
Jill
True. So what are the things we fight off or actually sometimes don’t matter, right? They actually don’t matter which is back to then that thing, do we just center ourselves around what we do agree on? Because typically, like, unless it’s a huge theological debate. The stuff that we really fall out of church experience with. Is is that is that sometimes the stuff that doesn’t matter.

00:19:19:06 – 00:19:20:13
Gibbo
Yeah. It’s style and preference.

00:19:20:16 – 00:19:22:23
Jill
Style and preference and yeah.

00:19:23:17 – 00:19:50:13
Gibbo
You know, it’s a good point and I just I love, I love actually what Paul writes on this. And I think this is really, really important to know as we as we follow Jesus and you know, this this aspect then Philippians 2 and just to the to sort of finish our podcast maybe around this idea of of of Jesus who is in the very form of God but did not consider robbery to be equal with God.

00:19:50:16 – 00:20:09:21
Gibbo
But He made himself of no reputation, taking the form of a servant and coming in the likeness of man. It talks about this emptying of himself, this word and the great this can gnosis or he could You used the phrase not so sparked us often my and my thinking Jill used to talk about laying down your right.

00:20:10:13 – 00:20:15:11
Gibbo
And like nobody model’s laying down his right to be right.

00:20:15:11 – 00:20:18:04
Jill
And he was right. That’s the whole point. Sometimes we’re not even right.

00:20:18:10 – 00:20:19:09
Gibbo
Exactly. Yeah.

00:20:19:14 – 00:20:21:02
Jill
And he’s the fulfillment of right.

00:20:21:02 – 00:20:28:07
Gibbo
He’s all the right isn’t he? He’s all the right that there ever has been. He is all the right that there ever is and he’s all the right that there ever will be.

00:20:28:14 – 00:20:29:24
Jill
And lays it down.

00:20:30:21 – 00:20:47:06
Gibbo
And lays it down. You know even to the point of his death even to the point of his accusers and talk about expectation and reality what about this for a thought Jesus never met anybody’s expectation apart from the father.

00:20:48:10 – 00:21:04:16
Gibbo
All this expectation about Messiah, all this expectation about the way to do it right to transfer that into our into our way. But no you should do church this way or no but you need to preach or speak this way or you need to worship this way. You need to include people, you know, all these things that, ohh, it should be like this.

00:21:04:16 – 00:21:09:13
Gibbo
You know, Jesus I think also had that and yet… his.

00:21:10:02 – 00:21:11:10
Jill
So gentle though.

00:21:11:15 – 00:21:28:07
Gibbo
Gentle in how he doesn’t meet those those expectations and gentle and in how he lays down his right to be right. In fact, he lays down all of his rights. Which ultimately is our model for community is it not?

00:21:28:07 – 00:21:34:22
Jill
Yeah. 100%. So what would that look like? Everybody’s walking in laying down the right.

00:21:35:06 – 00:21:35:21
Gibbo
To be right.

00:21:35:22 – 00:21:40:17
Jill
To be right.. that sounds like a transformational community to me right.

00:21:40:17 – 00:21:47:06
Gibbo
Yeah I think I want to I think I want our church to go after that. I think that would be a great

00:21:47:06 – 00:21:48:18
Jill
It’s a personal challenge though, right?

00:21:48:24 – 00:22:05:13
Gibbo
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It begins with us as we follow his creed, as we follow his way, as we follow his life, his teaching, and ultimately as we take up our cross. Because that’s a cross, isn’t it? You know, to lay down your right to be right.

00:22:05:22 – 00:22:07:03
Jill
Self-sacrifice.

00:22:07:15 – 00:22:22:16
Gibbo
OK, Jill it’s been a blast. This mini series on community. And we look forward to our next CFC podcast in the near future. But yeah, it’s been great chatting to you and thank you so much for your conversation.

00:22:22:16 – 00:22:24:00
Jill
Thank you so much!

00:22:24:18 – 00:22:25:02
Gibbo
Be blessed.